I am intrigued by Prophetess, a new play from Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho) to open October 7th at Tarragon Theatre, described this way on their website:

Margaret, the Chair of her English Department — and the Queen of Etymology — snaps awake, haunted by a nightmare of spiders. As she confides in her love, Henry, over breakfast, that very same spider from her dream manifests — speaking, growling, and cursing her. And so begins the first day of her term: overrun with eight-legged beasts, sparring words, a battle for the throne, a journey of joyous love, and insatiable prophecies.

Inspired by Shakespeare’s History Plays, Prophetess excavates etymology to ask: What does it mean to curse or bless oneself? What are the words we choose to define ourselves — and our future?

I wanted to know more about the play & its creator Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho) so I asked him some questions.

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BB – What is the best or worst thing about what you do?

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): Working in the arts has been a dream (and rigorous work) for a long time, so I am so grateful to get to do this at all. I work as a playwright, performer, dramaturg, educator, and administrator, and each role asks for something different. The best part of this mix of roles, is that it is never boring… there is always some new artistic adventure. I love the challenge of learning, then doing something new. It’s a double edged thing, in that, the waves of adventure can sometimes flat line… there are real ups and downs in a career in the arts, and sometimes there’s a lack of control or agency, or doubt, or instability.

Another beautiful thing about working in the theatre, is the people. Theatre is such a collaborative form, that I find most theatre artists to be such open hearted, forward thinking, partners in crime.

BB – What ability or skill do you wish you had, that you don’t have?

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): To be quicker on my feet.

BB –When you’re just relaxing and not working, what is your favourite thing to do?

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): Cooking and eating. Spending time with my husband and my two cats. Slowing down and enjoying life against the speed of modern day living.

BB: What was your first performance that you remember?

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): The Nutcracker. Some ballet company in Hong Kong. When I was six years old.

BB: When did you discover your true voice as an artist?

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): I think I’m still on my way to discover that. I think it’ll take a life time, if I ever get there.

I’ll share a story of when I was nineteen. Theatre school was such a pivotal phase of discovering the beginnings of my “voice.” I studied acting in Montreal but wrote a lot (the clues were always there). There was a project around creating solo shows, and I was a keener, so I wrote two. Nina Lee Aquino (then, AD of Cahoots, before her time at Factory, and before the NAC) was an instructor at the school and I brazenly took her aside to read her this short work.

Throughout this reading, I saw Nina looking around the room, and I thought to myself “oh no, I’ve lost her, I must be terribly boring.” Afterwards, when the read was finished, Nina said: “I was looking around the room at the pianos. These pianos are your set, your scene partners, your characters.” I loved that idea. From that moment on, Nina and I collaborated on this solo piece, with two pianos, that eventually became my debut play, trace, at Factory Theatre. Nina taught me that my voice contains music and language in the same breath. This is something I hold true to this day: words as music, or words and music, there’s always something of that in anything I create.

Since trace, I’ve written, staged, and published a few more plays, and I learn something new from writing each one. There’s always a moment of discovery, a true surprise, even to myself, and I find that that new addition reveals something new about “voice.”

It’ll take a lifetime.

BB: Dogs or cats?

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): Both. We have cats. We’d love a dog.

BB:  Aloud to an audience or reading to yourself? 

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): Aloud to an audience. Always.

BB: Live performance vs video/film

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): Both. I will always be a theatre animal, but I greatly admire the craft of performing or writing for screen.

BB: Theatre as lab experiment or theatre as sacred temple?

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): Both. Theatre as a sacred temple of experimentation. Or theatre as an experimental temple. Or theatre as a warm blanket. Or theatre as a jolt of lightning. Or theatre as a circle of kindness. Or really, theatre is one of those beautiful art forms that shapeshifts and flows into whatever container you can imagine. Theatre as smores by a campfire.

BB: Do you have a favourite Shakespearean quote and favourite role?

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): I do not have a favourite Shakespeare quote of the top of my mind. I do love Sonnet 18 very much, so I’ll say that.

My favourite Shakespeare role would be Ophelia, in Why Not Theatre’s Prince Hamlet.

BB:  What influences do you have? 

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): So many. I feel like life offers influences at every turn: the everyday, to the extraordinary, to the people one meets, to the artists one idolizes. I feel like I’ve started many new plays on trains, because I hear some new wild idea out of some stranger’s mouth.

And then of course, more direct artistic influences (aka. mentors): Yael Farber, Nina Lee Aquino, Mike Payette, Sherry Bie, David Yee, Brian Quirt, and so many more.

So many writers I love reading: Sarah Kane, debbie tucker green, Wajdi Mouawad, Roberto Bolano, Paul Lynch, Hannah Moscovitch, John Mighton, Anusree Roy, Madeleine Thien, Han Kang… far too many others to name.

I also grew up a classical pianist, and as mentioned above, music is so important: Bach, Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Shostakovich, Rosalia, Aretha Franklin, Sigur Ros… so many more.

One of my greatest influences in even becoming an artist at all: Sandra Oh. I mustered up the courage to run away from home to become an artist, because of her (from her role in Double Happiness).

BB: What does your ideal teacher do ?

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): Inspire curiosity so that the learner can learn to learn for themselves.

BB: Can we reconcile excellence and inclusiveness in our  education?

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): Yes. I don’t think it’s a matter of reconciling excellence and inclusion. That feels to me an antiquated way of considering arts education.

Excellence is subjective and shaped by many factors. An excellent “performer,” in Canada, would be held quite differently in Hong Kong, or Korea, or Mumbai.

Similarly, even within European arts/literary history, many of the inherited modern day “canonical,” writers, were deemed abominations, vagabonds, or uncouth when they first appeared, the furthest thing from “excellent.” Ibsen, and A Doll’s House. Sarah Kane and Blasted. Van Gogh. Then we can consider other artists, Canadian, or from elsewhere, who are now some of the most accomplished, decorated, and celebrated artists in their field… who also had to push up against antiquated standards of excellence: Judith Thomson and the Crackwalker (to give a Canadian example). Jean Genet. Paul Wong (another Canadian Example). The Blk Art Group. Jimi Hendrix. Miles Davis. The list goes on. So: arts education shouldn’t be about holding on to some firm definition of excellence, it should be to empower individual artists, from all walks of life, in their own authentic skin, to blaze excellence the way only they could, whatever identity they hold. To be inclusive of new forms of excellence, and to be open to it, and to champion it.

Now, on the other hand, take a look at the news, and you’ll see that arts institutions are falling like flies. Schools are closing, and the opportunities for young artists to learn is fraying. It will likely fall to practitioners to become more direct mentors, and organizations to offer greater professional development opportunities. The training will shift. It will still happen, but it will be different.

BB: Does Canadian nationalism (elbows up) help or contradict your activism, can we have solidarity across races- LGBTQ – nationalities – something else..? 

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): I am an immigrant and a settler, and very grateful to be Canadian. It is a very tough time. We are so steeped in it, that I see such varied reactions to the nationalism on display. I am still making sense of it.

In terms of solidarity: she may not be Canadian, but I am greatly inspired by Yuri Kochiyama’s legacy and work and words. Similarly with Grace Lee Boggs. We inherit the legacy and work of many who continue to fight for solidarity, across identities. Yes. It is possible. It is.

BB: Please tell us about writing Prophetess.

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): It started as a commission at Tarragon Theatre, where I work as the Associate AD as well. So it was a very unique experience. I’ve never had to write a play, with so much context: from marketing, to producing details, to budget conversations, etc. etc. That was, and continues to be, a huge learning.

At times, it’s too much information. It’s not helpful for the writing itself. But I would say, writing this from the vantage point of tech week, that I felt quite shielded, or that I was able to navigate being a playwright, while being a staff member of the company.

Also, my relationship with Tarragon started in 2018 or so, when I was a Playwright in Residence. I was invited into the company by Joanna Falck and Richard Rose, and for that, I am eternally grateful to the both of them.

When Mike Payette stepped into the company, we had some great chats, and he programmed one of my other plays, cockroach, as his season opener of his inaugural season. That was a huge honour. Mike was also the one to commission Prophetess, and the director, and the one who programmed it… so I have him to thank for a lot of this reality.

When it came to the act of writing. That is always a joy. It gives me such joy to write. I wrote the first draft of Prophetess over ten days, on a retreat with Playwrights Workshop Montreal, in Tadoussac. I was staying in Bill Glassco’s cottage. Bill is the founder of Tarragon. It felt so serendipitous to be there, away from Tarragon, while writing for Tarragon. A stroke of luck and fate.

After that initial first draft. We spent the last year workshopping it, where I would duck away from my admin job to keep honing the draft. I also went to the Banff Playwrights Lab, where I got to work intensively on the script with the guidance of Colleen Murphy, and that was such a dream.

It was an incredible masterclass in playwriting (thank you Colleen).

Then I prepared the draft for rehearsals, and here we are now, in tech week, about to open in two weeks time.

Time flies. This writing process has been a joy. It is has been up and down. Writing this. Staging this. Realizing this. It’s all a dream. I am appreciating every second, because I don’t know when I’ll get to do this again.

I realize I wrote about the development process very technically. The truth about the heart, and the core, and soul of the piece, that’s all it’s own process, and one I don’t have much control over. I write vomit drafts, and it spills out, and I don’t try to make sense of the vomit until it’s on stage.

BB: Please tell us about Tarragon’s production of Prophetess

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): This production is a dream. And a lot of hard work, all driven by love.

Starting with the cast. I love love love this whole cast. Karen Robinson, Christine Horne, Rick Roberts, and Natasha Mumba are all incredibly talented STARS of stage and screen. I want to write a little bit about each person because of how much I love them, and also for the fact that I really did tailor these characters to each artist, as best I could.

Karen Robinson is someone I’ve looked up to since theatre school. We took a class trip to the NAC to watch a production of Romeo and Juliet, and Karen played the Nurse. She is this incredible presence on stage, with such range: in her voice, emotions, and sense of comedy and drama. She is gravity. Then, like with Christine and Rick, I had the immense honour of being in Why Not Theatre’s production of Prince Hamlet, which is where I got to share the stage with Karen.

There was one moment on tour, where I think, I was out of my light, and Karen, without breaking character, gently guided me to my light, her hand and eyes full of care (professional and personal). I will never forget this moment.

I wrote Margaret for Karen, in hopes to tailor a character that is as full of range, comedy and drama, depth and gravity as she is. I am so grateful she said yes.

Christine Horne is yet another artist I looked up to in school. She is a star, and she floors me with every role I’ve seen her in. Even back in theatre school, I saw all the leading roles she played, and with such varied directors (especially this phase of Toronto theatre where there were a lot of European “auteurs” around… Graham, Jason Byrne, etc… and they all worked with Christine… because she’s the best). Then of course, she played Hamlet in Prince Hamlet.

To this day, in email correspondences, she’ll refer to me as Ophelia… the bond is forever!!! She also read some Juliet at my wedding, as a true guest of honour. I love her.

I wrote a monster of a role for Christine, because she is one of the nicest, most generous people I know. I wanted to see her dig and bite into a truly vicious character… for the fun of it. And to see her duke it out with Karen on stage again… it’s so much fun to watch.

Rick Roberts is the best. His nickname is Toronto Theatre’s Boyfriend, because it’s true. Everyone adores Rick. He is so immensely gifted as a performer, and also a total hoot in rehearsal… always cracking jokes, always taking care of others, or baking, or taking photos… he’s a magnet of wonderful positivity, while also being a monster of a performer. Like Karen and Christine, we shared many hours on tour in Prince Hamlet. We’ve crossed paths many times at Tarragon and beyond, and I always look forward to seeing Rick.

Also, Rick wrote an adaptation of Orestes at Tarragon, directed by Richard Rose, and I was a part of the cast. It ended up pivoting to a digital production, during the height of the pandemic, and it was an experience unlike any other. I am indebted to Rick and Richard for this awesome, experimental opportunity.

Natasha Mumba is someone I know who will win an Emmy or an Oscar one day. I remember thinking this when we went to theatre school together. I was a year ahead of her, and I remember watching her scene study of King Lear, when she was in first year, where she played Goneril. She did this one gesture, and I remember thinking, holy shit, she is amazing. Since graduation theatre school, she has quickly made her mark in the industry, on stage and on screen. Since being in theatre school together, I’ve always wanted to work with her.

Another fun fact about Natasha, is that we both share a core mentor in the incredible Nina Lee Aquino. There used to be this program at Factory Theatre called the Factory Mechanicals, that was an actor training program. There was also the Factory Engineers, which were folks Nina took on as her Assistant Artistic Director. Both Natasha and I went through that program, and we both currently work as Associate AD’s (Natasha at Obsidian). So, not only is Natasha a formidable performer, she is also a dramaturg, and a natural leader.

I’ve already shared lots of words about Mike, but this production is possible because of Mike.

Then the team at Tarragon is a dream. Again, getting to know everyone so deeply as a fellow staff member, has made creating this world, and realizing this play so beautiful. From the crafts people, to the marketing department, to the development team, to Heather, our incredible education and community outreach manager, or to Natasha Parson, the HEART of the theatre… the team at Tarragon is exceptional, and we take the business of sharing new plays seriously, and with a lot of joy.

This section is overlong. Thank you for this chance to share my love for this incredible team.

BB: Well I think it’s admirable & yes totally adorable that given the chance to talk about yourself, what did you do? You opt to talk at length about the team, other people you admire and who inspire you, who make theatre possible. It’s beautiful. What’s next for you this season? 

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): I return to supporting many other new works at Tarragon, being the production dramaturg on Call Me By My Cousin’s Name, by Anahita Dehbonehie, You’re Still Here by Katherine Gauthier, and Definition by Luke Reece. Also working on a piece with OtM, Musical Stage, and Crow’s for Sick Kids – it’s such a potent piece. And hopefully supporting other new works around the city, for example, Human Cargo’s Ghosts of Mariupol, by Christopher Morris at Crow’s. Lots of other fun adventures, I’m sure.

BB: You won the LAMBDA Award for Best LGBTQ+ Drama. Do you see yourself as an activist in your writing & performing?

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): Yes. I do think every little decision we make plays into a large political conversation. Being an artist, and spending time creating, or sharing in conversation with society is a deeply political act. Look at all the Ed Sheeran hubhub right now. Being an artist is to be an activist, no matter what stance you take.

BB: Have you ever felt a challenge reconciling the business side with the art ?

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): Yes. It is always a switch in my brain to compartmentalize the business and the art making. For this, I look to my mentor, Anusree Roy, who speaks very candidly about having to treat one’s work as business, as a “brand.” I am not a natural at it. I do not like to think about how much money a piece will make, or how successful a piece of art is, based on how much money it makes, or how commercial its reach is. It is a reality of being an artist in this day and age. I am no longer on social media because I have a very thin skin and I spiral into bad states with it. Leaving social media has done wonders for my mental health. But I know it also affects the business of sharing work in this day and age, especially my books.

There are many cultures of how to behave and treat one’s own art as a business. As Colleen Murphy shared with me, it is up to oneself to choose what culture they wish to participate in.

I am grateful to my formidable manager, Sean Gale-Miller at OAZ who helps me handle this with great humanity, tact, and strategy.

BB:  Is there a teacher or an influence you’d care to name that you especially admire or wish to thank? 

Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho): Yael Farber, Nina Lee Aquino, Colleen Murphy, Judith Thompson, Anusree Roy, Sherry Bie, Tedi Tafel, Jason Byrne, Ravi Jain, Christopher Morris, David Yee, Erika Batdorf, Keira Loughran, Jamie Robinson, Marlis Schweitzer, Paul Wong, Iris Turcott, Brian Quirt.

Many others. My career is only possible because of teachers and mentors.

BB: Thank you for sharing.

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Prophetess by Ho Ka Kei (Jeff Ho) premieres at Tarragon October 7th.